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Post by tinfoilphono on Mar 1, 2009 14:19:36 GMT -6
Okay, I have yet to hog the PhonoFocus here so I'll bring up one of my very favorite machines: MAKER: Unknown MODEL: Tinfoil SERIAL #: none YEARS: 1878 ORIGINAL COST: unknown CASE/CABINET SIZE: Base 13" x 10" TURNTABLE/MANDREL SIZE: 4" long, 3-7/8" diameter REPRODUCER/SOUNDBOX: wood mouthpiece, metal diaphragm MOTOR: hand crank HORN DIMENSIONS: none REPO PARTS: none CURRENT VALUE MINT: priceless INTERESTING FACTS: Formerly owned by phonograph pioneer Oliver Read, illustrated in the original 1959 edition of "From Tinfoil to Stereo" (see below). The origins of this highly decorative tinfoil are unknown. In his book Oliver Read credited it to "an independent maker in New Jersey in 1878." In his later years he recalled only that he bought it in the 1930s in the northeast (New Jersey??). There's no question that it's American-made, all of the threads are US-spec. I presume it to be the work of a very skilled craftsman. The mahogany base is intricately carved, gilded, and painted, and has complex inlaid designs. A small hidden drawer on the rear of the base held tools and spare stylii. The filigreed metalwork is made of gilded cast iron, which suggests that others others were made at the same time. (Complex castings like these are very difficult and expensive to make, so machinists would normally amortize the cost of creating patterns by producing multiple castings.) However no others are known to survive today. It has sophisticated features including a 'throwout' lever on the left side to quickly reset the mandrel position, and a locking lever for the speaker casting, found on very few tinfoils. This machine is particularly special to me because I can still very vividly remember the first time I saw a picture of it: December 25, 1962. My parents gave me a copy of "From Tinfoil to Stereo" for Christmas that year and I was absolutely entranced by this tinfoil. I never could have dreamed that 45 years later I would end up owning it. It is one of my most treasured possessions.
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Post by phonogfp on Mar 1, 2009 14:31:50 GMT -6
...And with good reason! I too was quite taken by the photo of this machine in Tinfoil to Stereo, and years later was pleased to photograph it again for one of our books. I only wish it had been cleaned up when we shot it... It's a spectacular machine, Rene, and congratulations!
George P.
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Post by phonolair on Mar 1, 2009 15:03:28 GMT -6
Out standing, just breath taking. Its great to see a machine that I otherwise would not see or find even in a major collection. Your pictures make it as if I were there and could touch it, thanks.
Best Regards, Larry
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Post by tinfoilphono on Mar 1, 2009 16:32:13 GMT -6
...I only wish it had been cleaned up when we shot it... Yes, what a difference a little cleaning can make. Here's the base of the machine before and after I cleaned it: It is NOT refinished. All I did was very gently clean off many decades of dust and grime, and then applied a light coat of 'Renaissance' museum wax to protect it. Purely a museum conservation approach. But wow, what a transformation!
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Post by MTPhono on Mar 2, 2009 9:30:52 GMT -6
That's a beautiful tinfoil Rene!
It's also a great story that you had wanted this very machine since you began collecting in 1962. How does this one play?
Thanks for re-creating this PhonoFocus.
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schweg
Three Spring Motor
Posts: 218
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Post by schweg on Mar 2, 2009 9:42:02 GMT -6
CURRENT VALUE MINT: priceless
Absolutely true. What an astounding machine... well worth the wait.
Steve
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Post by Moooperator on Mar 2, 2009 10:14:32 GMT -6
I think this is the most whimsical phonograph on the face of the earth. And it could not be in better hands! Better hooves? yes. But hands? no. What a change already from Edison's first in 1877 to this machine one year later. The recording and playback are housed in the same mouth piece. It shows how someone can take a great idea and run with it and make it better. Although the little leaves on the front of the base are not corn, the color and carving makes me think this came out of the Corn Palace. ;D
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schweg
Three Spring Motor
Posts: 218
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Post by schweg on Mar 2, 2009 11:24:59 GMT -6
Hmmm.. I was thinking those looked like X's from a bowling game and maybe this was an early bowling trophy.......
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Starkton
Two Spring Motor
How do you get that
Posts: 61
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Post by Starkton on Mar 2, 2009 16:56:49 GMT -6
Congratulations for realization of a long-cherished dream. I also have my "secret" desire: Fabrizio & Paul picture a most elegant German tinfoil phonograph, manufactured by Carl Lorenz from Berlin, in or after 1880.
Your spectacular tinfoil phonograph from unknown makers is a nice example of a "mariage", as art historians call it: the combination of two or more components which don't belonged together initially. Folk art base and baroquish metal works don't seem to correspond. Neither from carrying out or positioning, nor from style. I think it will be a nice idea to show it some experts in a museum of folk art. Perhaps they could help to narrow down the dating of the base.
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Post by tinfoilphono on Mar 2, 2009 20:08:32 GMT -6
It's certainly possible that the base was originally made for some other purpose, and then adapted by whatever craftsman made the phonograph. But it's hard to imagine what purpose it might have served. The size and general configuration would seem to have little purpose for anything else, or at least anything I've been able to come up with. I made a lot of inquiries to various specialists in the past couple of years in the hopes to getting more information. I didn't learn anything definitive but I did get some intriguing insights. John Bowditch, a retired curator formerly with the Henry Ford Museum and a specialist in early technology said "I have no idea of who made this machine but I definitely concur that the castings were professionally made. I'd go one step further and suggest there is NO WAY that these were adapted from some other purpose with the exception of the flywheel. That looks like it was purchased from standard supplier of such things. I would hazard to guess that it was originally used for things like a valve hand wheel. It's clear to me that these were made for this purpose and presumably there are more of these machines out there somewhere. Maybe not many but I'd bet there are." In a followup discussion he offered some wonderful information about the manufacture of such fine castings in the 19th century: "I can’t give you definitive reasons, just a lifetime of looking at 19th century objects and these castings do seem to be purpose built (exception is the flywheel, of course), not “recycled” from some other device. Your comments about the speaker casting are especially telling in this regard. It’s important to remember that the late 19th century was awash with cast iron and castings. There were thousands of small foundries in most parts of the country and most of these were perfectly capable of making up short runs of device specific castings. The point is that back in 1880 or so it was far easier to do this then it was even 40 years ago and the quality of work coming out of the foundries of that time was beyond compare. This was especially true of the New England textile mill shops and manufacturers like the Lowell Machine Shop or machine tool builders like Brown & Sharpe (who made the Wilcox & Gibbs Sewing Machine as a side business). I see no reason why the maker of this machine didn’t go to a place like Brown & Sharpe and work out with them to make the parts. Remember what I said above, there were THOUSANDS of these shops in the country and many were darn good at their craft. Of course, until you find a “smoking gun” like an ad for this machine, it will always have to be conjecture." I carried on extensive correspondence with several experts in vintage sewing machines since a conservator currently at the Ford Museum had speculated that some parts may have been supplied by a sewing machine manufacturer. It was the unanimous consensus of the experts in that field that no parts were used on sewing machines. Even the flywheel is unlike any known sewing machine application. Another common consensus was that "it does have a familiar look about it, though that may be down to general stylistic features of the 1860s- 1870s. The 'fleur-de-lis' finials and curlicues in the cast iron portions are common on sewing machine treadle bases of that era for instance." I tried contacting a museum of folk art but never received a reply. I would like to know what an experienced expert might say about the design of that base, and any possible origin or alternate use. I did find one collector of folk art who speculated "The inlay of the top is more of a New England style of woodwork. The wooden base [carving] is a different style, more like Pennsylvania. It's a really beautiful machine regardless of its origin." I'm sure it will always remain an intriguing mystery, but I won't stop hunting for more clues.
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Post by Moooperator on Mar 2, 2009 21:28:39 GMT -6
You wouldn't happen to have a recording made from this machine to upload would you?
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Post by andersun on Mar 2, 2009 21:47:45 GMT -6
Rene, What a beautiful machine!
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Aaron
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 64
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Post by Aaron on Mar 2, 2009 21:49:32 GMT -6
Rene,
If your wondering what this machine could have been in a past life (before a phonograph) i figured i could put my 2 cents in...
As your curator friend said the fly wheel does look a lot like part of an old valve.It could also be the fly wheel from an old hand wind sewing machine but thats all i could think of.Now onto the base... The base appears as though it could have at one time been one of those fancy pen/ink stands one would find on a desk in an office.This would explain the drawer at the back as that would be facing the person sitting at the desk.It could hold personalized stationary or extra pens,ink,or other office needs.
Everything else on the phonograph definitely looks like it was made just for the purpose.This is all i could think of but i am sure ill think of a few more things as i lay in bed tonight.Before phonograph i think i covered collecting everything else there is so i have seen a lot of things this could have been.All in all its a VERY beautiful phonograph and it couldn't be in better hands!Ill tell you if i think of anything else!
Bests, Aaron
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Post by Moooperator on Mar 2, 2009 22:16:31 GMT -6
Rene,
Does any of the fasteners go all the way through the top piece? The reason I ask, maybe the top was made for this machine and later someone else added the bottom portion. Notice how the star and circle are in perfect alignment on the center piece of castings... it was made to match those connecting points. Now none of the decorations from the top are mimic in the bottom portion. Not the dFleur-de-lis like emblems in the corners or the inlaid around the edge. The bottom is more folk art and loose in design while the top is very structured just like the cast work. I would think the person responsible for the beautiful castings and top board would have kept that order on the bottom.
my 2 cents.
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Post by tinfoilphono on Mar 2, 2009 22:52:21 GMT -6
I have no sound files for this machine, alas. I've never made this one talk. It's no secret that I'm a tinfoil fiend. I have 15 machines now -- 8 originals and 7 replicas. All are in working order except for two: the wood/plaster original machine by D. Vital, and this craftsman tinfoil. Both of these are simply too fragile to risk tinkering with. There are some stress fractures in the castings on this machine. I consider it too rare and valuable to risk any possible further damage just to get the satisfaction of making it talk. But I do regret that fact -- I like to know that all my tinfoils are in top functioning condition.
Aaron, some kind of desk stand is certainly possible, but the drawer is too small for any normal writing purpose -- certainly too small for paper, and barely big enough for a fountain pen -- which would have been rare in that era.
Moo, the one folk-art collector I corresponded with was essentially thinking the same thing. But there's no way to prove it. The base pieces are firmly mounted to the top wood panel. For sure they could have been combined from two separate pieces but there's no evidence of it. If someone did take a flat inlaid piece from one thing, and make a skirted base to fit it, they did a superb job of it.
The mystery remains, but in my personal opinion as a tinfoil freak, I consider this to be one of the two most attractive tinfoil phonographs ever made. (The other is the superb privately-crafted phonograph made by R.W. St. Clair and illustrated in my book. No commercially-produced tinfoil phonographs can rival either of these for visual impact.)
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