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Post by Moooperator on Jan 8, 2009 10:35:03 GMT -6
I used to not know what all the noise was about on bamboo. I had a few and they didn't sound full enough to me. Then I got a cutter and put them on my schoolhouse and WOW! I think they sound full and although not as loud as steel they don't have that sharp hiss noise. I think my problem before was the needles were used and dull.
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wjw
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 89
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Post by wjw on Jan 8, 2009 15:25:19 GMT -6
Used them for years. No wear to those unworn records! Switched to cactus a few years back. A little more fidelity from these and you can re-point three times what you can with bamboo.
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zeppy
One Spring Motor
Posts: 30
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Post by zeppy on Jan 8, 2009 15:36:00 GMT -6
I've picked up hundreds of these guys over the years (I think I found nearlly 100 loose inside a machine I purchased once). Love them for classical music. I think they give a nice warm mellow tone, which doesn't necessarily translate well with most dance/jazz tunes... Sadly, the price seems to have skyrocketed for getting these new-old stock. And if you have deep pockets, on ebay as we speak: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&item=350147500783For a mere $40 odd dollars (with 2 days to go).
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Post by Moooperator on Jan 8, 2009 16:03:28 GMT -6
I've never tried cactus needles. Are they not narrower than bamboo? I've noticed how the bidder go nuts of a pile of these. A big demand for them just not big enough for some enterprising Chinese dude to start making them.
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Post by 3victrolas on Jan 8, 2009 18:38:41 GMT -6
I love my cactus needles (!), but haven't tried the bamboo. Based on your pictures, I'd say that cactus is narrower than the bamboo. My brand of needles is something like a medium tone needle in tone & size. Now that I have bunches of NOS packs of cactus needles, naturally I needed the accessories to go with the needles. At the 2008 Union show Lukewarmwater helped me find the sharpener I was looking for, & Ron Harring had NOS packs of replacement garnet sharpening discs.
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Post by Jim C. on Jan 11, 2009 9:50:20 GMT -6
I, too, have used cactus needles and I like their sound. I have not yet tried bamboo.
I do not have a cactus needle sharpener yet, nor a bamboo cutter. I guess I need to do that.
Jim C.
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Post by Moooperator on Jan 11, 2009 11:06:38 GMT -6
3Vic does have a nice setup for cactus needles. I wanna try them out. I wonder what species these needles were harvested from. I don't think any grown around here are thick or stiff enough.
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Post by 3victrolas on Jan 11, 2009 12:01:35 GMT -6
I wanna try them out. I wonder what species these needles were harvested from. I don't think any grown around here are thick or stiff enough. You haven't tried them? Shame! Look for some in your mailbox this week. Your phonograph experience won't be complete w/o it. I might regret that as it will create more competition for those needles. Wish I knew the species too because I'd love to have one of those plants even if I had to have a greenhouse to grow it. BTW, my cactus package says on the back chemically treated to prolong life. Humm, treated w/ what chemical?
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schmaltz
One Spring Motor
"Shut your eyes and see" (James Joyce)
Posts: 4
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Post by schmaltz on Jan 11, 2009 13:13:00 GMT -6
I was taught to use these needles when I was about eight; I always come back to them on the acoustic Victrola. They're great for records with little or no wear, as "wjw" said earlier.
Sometime in the 70s, or was it the 80s, there was some kind of flap from British collectors that fibre needles left a resin in the grooves and this was undesirable. Records that had been played with fibre needles since new were downgraded for that reason. Nobody's saying anything about that now, and I haven't heard anything about it for years, so I'm going to assume that it was some wild hypothesis briefly mistaken for gospel. Anyone else ever heard of that one?
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wjw
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 89
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Post by wjw on Jan 11, 2009 13:27:38 GMT -6
Never heard the resin deposit stories. You may have read the Victor blurbs about "training the record" to the bamboo needle so it will play through before wearing the point to where the sound breaks down. Even on a N.O.S. record somestimes you have to do this. Even some records with visible wear will play through on a fiber point after a few attempts. I surmise that what is happening is that a little shmutz from the fiber needle(cactus or bamboo) is deposited in the groove where the groove wall has been cut from wear. In subsequent play, this deposit allows extended point life. It's very cool and is the only way to go on a vintage machine and not harm the records.
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Post by Moooperator on Jan 11, 2009 17:31:27 GMT -6
Hummm a fiber needle that leaves a little lubrication or a steel needle sanding down the grooves? I vote fiber!
I had heard that point made before too about resin buildup. It's not like they are made from pine or some sappy tree like that though.
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Post by barnettrp21122 on Jan 11, 2009 19:03:30 GMT -6
Hello! I've gotten very good with making my own fiber needles, starting with the information posted at this link. You may know the author of the article: www.angelfire.com/nc3/talkingmachines/fibreneedle.htmlYou can find bamboo shishkabob skewers at nearly any supermarket, hardware store or Walmart for a few dollars for a pack of a 100 or so. Some are thicker than others, which requires more whittling down to fit the triangular needle chuck. The narrow ones require more finesse to cut, but you save time removing less material. Although the above article has you start by using a short length of skewer, I find it's easier to just hold the entire length in one hand and whittle your triangular shape on about two inches of the end. Once it's shaped and pointed using a needle cutter I then cut it to proper length. I use a disposable knife, a dog nail trimmer (to trim the needle to proper length) and a needle cutter bought off of ebay. Using the cutter to make the point eliminates the need to use an emery board, and it makes a good-looking point. I've tried soaking them in paraffin but I don't notice a difference in durability. The biggest thing I've noticed is that each skewer has its own hardness or density. Many in a pack are too soft, and the needles cut from them won't make it through a single record side. Every so often though you find a really good piece that yields needles comparable to the old commercial ones. Lately I'll try each skewer and if the resulting needle trims in the cutter with a smart "snap" and plays through one or two sides then I know the rest from that skewer will be good too. I can make a couple needles in the time it takes to play a single record side, and two good needles will last me through an evening of listening! Maybe someone knows a better type of bamboo that would be consistently denser? Bob Barnett
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wjw
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 89
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Post by wjw on Jan 11, 2009 21:09:35 GMT -6
If you have some N.O.S. bamboo needles you can see that one of the three sides is the smooth outside of the stalk. I think that may be critical to point life. I don't know if you get that smooth side with the skewers. I used to slice mine out of a piece of an old bamboo fishing pole. Worked well- I got fat ones, skinny ones, long and short hacking them out this way!
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Post by Moooperator on Jan 11, 2009 21:42:47 GMT -6
Another thought is chop sticks from a food joint. they may be more consist than skewers. many folks use skewers though
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Dan G
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 55
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Post by Dan G on Jan 12, 2009 19:59:47 GMT -6
Just make sure you try to get one of the darker fibres to lay where the point on the needle is. Reshapring/sharping with an emery board works great, that is, if you want a precise point but you have to occasionally recut it with a needle cutter or exacto knife.
Dan
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