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Post by phonogfp on Feb 7, 2009 8:34:26 GMT -6
I once was told by a fellow collector that Edison produced a cygnet horn with a "whale skin" bell. He was an advanced collector and swears he had his hands on one at one time and was perplexed since it was nothing he had never seen before. Has anyone ever heard that a cygnet horn was offered with a whale skin bell? I know it sounds completely absurd by todays standards but what about 100 years ago?ColoCrank I believe I've seen every Edison catalog of the 1909-1915 period, but I've never seen a whaleskin bell offered. I've examined several catalogs of the manufacturers of Edison Cygnet horns (Edison did not manufacture its own horns) but never run across the whaleskin option. There were a number of folding horns made of linen or canvas - perhaps some enterprising owner decided to fashion a bell from a similar material. (And just how would a phonograph collector identify whaleskin from sealskin or walrus skin or some other hide?) This reminds me of a well-known collector and phonograph historian whom I admire and respect - - but he maintains to this day that the horns of Amberola 1As and 1Bs are made of leather. Examination of such a horn (especially a damaged one!) will immediately rule this out. And yet...! I'm repeatedly surprised by how much credence many of us put into stories that begin with "I was told..." For my part, I WAS TOLD as a teenager that the Edison Standard I was examining was signed by Thomas Edison himself! "Just look there - see where he signed it?" Well, that's was I was TOLD...! In court, it's called "anecdotal evidence," or "hearsay," and it's not admissible. George P.
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Post by Moooperator on Feb 7, 2009 9:58:09 GMT -6
George, I'm glad to now know that no matter how much time you spend in this hobby... you can always find a few surprises. Here's one for you. I actually own a whale skin cygnet horn... I hope you can tell which one it is in this photo. it's the first one on the left. The one mounted on the little Edison fireside machine. It is made from Beluga whale skin and I find that the sound from it is rather high on the treble side. Also it is a very costly horn to upkeep - Eating over 25 pounds of cod fish a day. If you guys want to use my photo in your next book just let me know. I love sharing my rare phonographic items with the community.
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Post by phonolair on Feb 7, 2009 12:45:43 GMT -6
That's great Moo, I love it. But I'm surprised you don't have a cow hide Cygnet horn. I was told they only came as a 11 panel Cygnet horn and are very rare. Only the Edison phonograph dealers in the Midwest could order them and it was only one per dealer. I also was told that you wanted to get one made from the front of the cow as the ones from the rear of the cow smelled funny. And also while I'm here can anyone tell me who made this horn and what it was originally intended for. I know its a early seamless bell horn but thats it. It's 15" high and 7" across the bell with a fixed hanger. Best Regards, Larry
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Post by andersun on Feb 7, 2009 13:25:45 GMT -6
A family of Accepted Standard Amplifying Horn For Talking Machines Pappa: 55.5" Mamma: 36.5" Baby: 24"
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Post by Little Nipper on Feb 7, 2009 14:55:50 GMT -6
Looks like Papa Horn has been taking those "Natural Male Enhancement" pills...
8===8 Little Nipper
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Aaron
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 64
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Post by Aaron on Feb 7, 2009 16:24:01 GMT -6
That's great Moo, I love it. But I'm surprised you don't have a cow hide Cygnet horn. I was told they only came as a 11 panel Cygnet horn and are very rare. Only the Edison phonograph dealers in the Midwest could order them and it was only one per dealer. I also was told that you wanted to get one made from the front of the cow as the ones from the rear of the cow smelled funny. And also while I'm here can anyone tell me who made this horn and what it was originally intended for. I know its a early seamless bell horn but thats it. It's 15" high and 7" across the bell with a fixed hanger. Best Regards, Larry Larry, Your horn looks like the kind intended to be used on a table top coin op. I dont think i have ever seen a seamless though.They usually cost quit a bit. Aaron
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Post by phonogfp on Feb 7, 2009 19:18:38 GMT -6
The 14" and 18" seamless horns were, for some reason, at first manufactured with an angled orifice. Below is a page from Columbia's Nov. 1, 1898 catalogue: These horns were manufactured by Hawthorne & Sheble. Seamless brass horns were not supplied with Graphophone table-top coin-operated machines. (Edison did not offer such a machine until 1899.) By 1901, the angled orifices had been dispensed with (Aaron - see page 7 of your H&S catalogue). My presumption is that the angled orifices allowed the 14" and 18" horns to assume a more horizontal position when attached to a Phonograph or Graphophone. The larger horns would use rubber connectors, and could be more easily adjusted horizontally. Presumably. by 1901 H&S had decided that people didn't care so much about horn angle with the smaller horns. Below is a photo of several seamless brass horns on the floor - including the 14" and 18" sizes with angled orifices: If anyone's interested, I could get off my lazy backside and shoot closeups of any of these horns, instead of recycling my old photos! Best to all - George P.
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Aaron
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 64
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Post by Aaron on Feb 7, 2009 19:33:35 GMT -6
George,
If you dont mind i would like to see some close ups of thoses horn(why am i always the bothersome one?) i just love the brass horns in general and never got to see a seamless up close.
sorry to make you move, Aaron
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Post by phonogfp on Feb 7, 2009 21:46:25 GMT -6
Aaron, Jeez, Louise! Okay, here are three seamless horns showing their entire lengths: 14", 18", and 30": Here are closeups of the hangers on the 18" and 30" horns. The 14" did not use a hanger... Here's a 41" seamless horn; very heavy gauge brass and heavy: And here's a closeup of the unusually elegant hanger on the 41" seamless: I hope the photos are helpful - - Best, George P.
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Post by Moooperator on Feb 7, 2009 22:33:33 GMT -6
I so want to spend my second honeymoon in George's attic!
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Post by phonogfp on Feb 8, 2009 8:37:13 GMT -6
I so want to spend my second honeymoon in George's attic! Moo, I'm hoping you'll be bringing your wife...! George P.
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Post by phonolair on Feb 8, 2009 8:39:41 GMT -6
Thanks guys for the info on the seamless brass horn. Since it was a supplied horn or after market horn it should be correct hanging on any machine from around 1900 or earlier.
Best Regards, Larry
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Aaron
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 64
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Post by Aaron on Feb 8, 2009 8:42:05 GMT -6
thanks for those George!
And if i ever get married could i have my honeymoon there too?
Thanks again for the pictures! Aaron
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Post by Moooperator on Feb 8, 2009 9:08:10 GMT -6
RONFLMAO!!!!
No, that would ruin everything.
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Post by phonogfp on Feb 8, 2009 10:11:30 GMT -6
I suggest all you Lotharios not mention your honeymoon destination to your wives until after arrival! Also - if I can arrange "Marriage Insurance," can I be listed as beneficiary?
George P.
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