|
Post by amtrack88 on Jan 13, 2010 5:49:27 GMT -6
I have been rebuilding a VV-50 motor this past week and finally got to cleaning and greasing the spring and reinstalling it. I used engine assembly lithium graphite grease and noticed it was very tacky. Once I had the motor assembled and oiled with the blue bottle 3-in-1, I notice it now has issues starting up once I give it a full winding and it feels a little sluggish. I have to push-start the turn table or the governor get everything moving.
I have a feeling I didn't regrease the spring correctly or use the right grease. What type of grease did some of you use and how did you apply it to the spring?
|
|
DonIV
Three Spring Motor
Listening to Ray Noble collection
Posts: 169
|
Post by DonIV on Jan 13, 2010 21:03:49 GMT -6
I've used high-temp wheel bearing grease with good results. The stuff I used was black, but I've heard others find it in green and red I think. The original grease was a mixture of petroleum grease (Vaseline) and graphite powder. I've mixed my own and used that with good results too. I put a table spn full or two in the barrel before putting the spring back in. There may be some phonograph repair guys on the internet that sell a pre-mixed original style grease. It's been a while since I searched for it.
The motor should be able to start up on it's own. The governor may need some Vaseline. Or you may have assembled the governor parts a little too tightly.
(Moo's word fillter won't let me post the word "s p o o n", it changes it to "thingy")
sthingy
|
|
|
Post by bob27556 on Jan 20, 2010 12:23:51 GMT -6
I read somewhere that the formula for the original grease was 10 parts petroleum jelley to 1 part, #2 flaked graphite. This is what I've been using and never had a problem with it.
|
|
wjw
Two Spring Motor
Posts: 89
|
Post by wjw on Jan 24, 2010 15:03:18 GMT -6
I would pull the governor and see if the spindle spins freely with the slightest winding of the spring. If so, the problem is focused on the governor's bearing adjustment and the "endless screw" alignment with the spindle gear. The governor needs just the slightest end-to-end clearance in the bearings. I just went through this problem with a diamond disc motor, spent quite a while playing with the governor adjustments and finally got it where it would start on its own with the least noise. Sometimes you have to remind yourself that this is fun!
|
|
|
Post by orthophonic on Jun 9, 2010 17:31:47 GMT -6
Edison used 10 parts vaseline with one part Dixon's flake graphite; Edison springs are sturdy fellows and I'm not sure how this mixture would work with springs of lesser strength. I use the graphite motor assembly lube which has molybendenum, graphite, and is #1 1/2 grease. This is lighter than #2 wheel bearing grease and seems to work well. I've also used the oily lithium grease motor assembly lube and it seemed to do fine. The key to both is to have clean springs and barrels and to be sure all hardened grease is cleaned away from all gears; the same mixture seems to work for them, too. Governors also seem to like the turbine oil sold for electric motors for air conditioners and stuff like that; it comes in a bottle with a long flexible tube. Sewing machine oil is another way but it is somewhat light for the job but works better than 3-in-1 which sometimes gums after being around awhile. WD-40 is NOT good as it turns into plastic and gums up when dry...
|
|
|
Post by eckster on Mar 2, 2011 19:52:09 GMT -6
Another tip is when removing spring is check i the arbor shaft does not have burrs or grooves worn in them. Also if the spring barrel cover and the barrel bushings are worn these could cause binding problems ont the main turtable gear or worm, holes wore oblong can cause gear teeth to wear and slip because the spring barrel or arbor gear ocilates in oblong holes cuasing more binding as the barrel winds down more the same also happens with varnished or grease caked spring barrel bushings make sure these are clean and dont have too much play when the arbor shaft is put back in
|
|
jenna
One Spring Motor
Posts: 5
|
Post by jenna on Apr 3, 2011 16:47:46 GMT -6
This may seem like silly question but I am trying to pull apart the spring case so I can clean it and regrease the spring. However I can't figure out how! Can someone please help, it is a Garrard motor.
|
|
|
Post by eckster on Apr 3, 2011 22:02:48 GMT -6
Is it a 2 spring or a one spring motor? thats my first question is the big gear fused as one assembly to the spring barrel? some spring barrel covers are slightly pressed into the barrel and a gentle rap will pop it loose( CAUTION MUST BE TAKEN OR ELSE THE SPRING COULD POP THROUGH AND RELEASE VIOLENTLY IF YOU USE TO MUCH FORCE) others are counter pressed in and held by a snap ring Yet others have a cover that come off just like unscrewing a lid from a jar these can be tight, you turn the cover slightly counterclock wise then it should pull off. If they are really caked it may require some persuasion. best thing if you can is send a picture of the spring barrel
|
|
jenna
One Spring Motor
Posts: 5
|
Post by jenna on Apr 4, 2011 22:38:25 GMT -6
Does this help? Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by eckster on Apr 5, 2011 0:16:26 GMT -6
yup the gear should pop out at the right hand side this is a single spring barrel it might be tight because the gear arbor is probably caked. to the right of the spring anchor pin rivet pin rivet you see there is a lid looking thing get a rag put it over the big gear and tightly grip the ragged big gear reason for the rag is to not pierce the skin with your hands with the gear teeth cause they are sharp. With the other hand try to spin or work the lid cover loose if to tight rag the lid end of the barrel and gently with large locking piers try to spin the lid off. The reason is why i say gently and rag the end is because you can marr the end by using bare pliers or crush the lid if you tighten the pliers to much because the spring barrel and lid could be pot metal. if it is still to tight soak the whole thing in kerosine for a week to loosen things off and try again at that time you might want to take a small blade screw driver and gently and slowly tap the lid with it every 180 degrees when its loose stop. dont tap the lid all the way off because some times the spring may have migrated a bit toward the lid side and may become stuck to it by tapping it all the way off the spring with the lid could fly out causing injury or damage. when the lid is loose slowly remove the lid you will see if the spring wants to come out with the lid. if you see the sping edges pull with the lid immmediatly stop push the lid back in and work the lid like your opening and closing a jar then remove the lid. Remember with those type of barrels gentle! gentle! gentle! my Soviet russian portable phonograph has the exact same spring barrel as yours and they get nasty tight some times after years of not being serviced. I hope you have a strong pair of wrist putting the spring back in because that is a real stiff spring in there. Keep in touch with me on your project i can guide you thru it. tell me how you are making out with the project
|
|
jenna
One Spring Motor
Posts: 5
|
Post by jenna on Apr 5, 2011 2:15:03 GMT -6
Thankyou for the quick and detailed advice, its still not moving so I am going to let it soak in some kero for a week and see how things go from there. I will defently keep you posted and most likely be asking more questions.
|
|
jenna
One Spring Motor
Posts: 5
|
Post by jenna on Apr 7, 2011 4:55:02 GMT -6
so quick update, after alot of work i finaly managed to re-grease the spring and to return it to its home. HOwever when i try to wind the spring back up it gets stuck and then suddenly re-leases. I can't see any visual reasons why this should be occuring, does anyone have any ideas?
|
|
|
Post by eckster on Apr 12, 2011 20:05:14 GMT -6
remove the lid end of the spring barrel slide the arbor shaft in the center as you would normally do the cut out should snugly fit where the spring hooks into the cut out turn the gear by hand as if winding the arbor, 1/2 a turn if the spring wants to slip out of the cut out you may have to slightly bend the spring out. Or when you wound the spring back into the barrel did you make sure that the end of the spring was properly clipped back in. the rivet on the ouside of the barrel holds a hook or lip if its a hook the spring has a hole drilled through it where the hook fits through. with the lip the spring has a bend and it hooks into it. make sure that the hole isn't broken through or the bend hasnt expanded. Sometimes what happens when the spring gets put back into the barrel it isnt taunt enough almost like an underwound condition and the spring can become unhooked, when you try and wind it it gets jammed you might have to re dissasemble the barrel again and set everything. Sometimes it could be the quality of grease you are using. Do not use thick or ordinary axle grease because its to thick or even overgreasing can cause problems also and leave a big mess when it oozes out through the bushings and the lid, The grease should be a vasoline consistency as a matter of fact I buy the small container of regular vaseline and add 2 parts of powdered or flaked graphite to it powdered or flaked graphite can be obtained from locksmiths automotive places or art stores. This is thomas edisons recipe for the gramophones he built and it works good. It will eventually cake in years to come. By the way what type of machine do you have with the gerrard motor
|
|
|
Post by eckster on Apr 12, 2011 20:09:52 GMT -6
Another type of grease i use is engine assembly lube that works good as well you can allso add a bit of graphite if you want. got to the topic in repairs and tips for phonographs titled " Spring barrel grease and hello" there are videos and suggestions there
|
|