Spring Barrel Grease and Hello!!!

[orthophonic]

WE need a thread here... Hope this board works out very well without problem children. A good grease for Victor spring barrels is engine assembly lube. It is 1 1/2 grade grease and is thinner than the more common #2 used for wheel bearings in automobiles. One of the cheaper places is O'Reilley's as they sell larger tubes of the black kind with moly and graphite in it. The white kind can also be used and it can be thinned a little with oil, if needed. Only problem is that the white type sometimes separates if left alone for a long period of time in widely changeable temperatures. Hope this helps!!!

[3victrolas]

Thanks for posting this. When I get the correct tone arm for my consolette, I'll be cleaning out the old grease. I was wondering which type would be better.

[henrilaforge]

The spring grease and removal is a hot topic on some other boards. There is a very dangerious video people can see that just pulls the spring out of the barrell. So if you wish to clean and grease your spring don't do what you see in that video on YouTube. That is for a single play portable gramophone, not a real phonograph. Be careful.

Tim Gracyk offers some advice on removing the

www.gracyk.com/tenquestion.shtml

Keep all moving parts well lubricated. Use only high quality grease and oil. Keep the felt pads on the spinning balls speed control governor on the spring motor well oiled. If the spring motor has “thunder” noises as it unwinds, this indicates the springs are dry and need new grease. Working with the large phonograph springs is tricky and even a little dangerous. Suddenly released from its casing a phonograph spring can sling black grease, occupy half a room, and possibly cause some bad cuts. It is best left to the dealers; they have special large “C” clamps for this work.They can clean and lubricate the springs and even replace broken springs.

I like simple white (lithium) grease from auto parts store. Careful some of this can irritate or burn your hands.

[style6]

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree that my video is dangerous, as do a few people who have tried it for themselves & contacted me- Sean being one of them..
If you READ all the description box and comments, all safety issues are covered, including holding the barrel in a vise, and wearing gloves & safety glasses!
Larger spring are removed in exactly the same way, but they are more powerful, & I recommend starting out on a small spring until you get used to the forces involved.

Common sense & caution should be used when removing any spring of any size, and there's no reason anyone can't do their own springs at home.
Double click the Youtube logo to read the description box.

[style6]

Here too are two pages from the Edison repair manual, showing the technic Edison recommended for "real" spring removal.
And yes, it is a "repairman's" manual not intended for home use, but much like phono repairmen today, repairers are in the business of making money, and don't want the average person knowing how simple it is, and doing it themselves.
I'd be more than happy to make a follow-up video showing the removal of a large spring from a DD machine in exactly the same way if you like. Just say the word

[Visitor]

The video shows a man with bare hands, he would get his finger tip snipped (maybe off) if that was a stronger Edison, Victor or Columbia spring. The instruction booklet shows a man with bare hands putting a spring back into the barrell, not removing it.

That video shows a man pulling a spring out of the barrell unprotected, oil, grease or graphite would spray all over the place, the spring would jump out like a jack-in-the-box. That video shows a small spring and barrell that can be held down with two fingers, but look, even that spring jumped out of the instructors hands back into the barrell. No thank you, but anyone can post anything on the internet.

Go do a demonstration of a much larger spring. But be careful, wear safety glasses, long sleve shirt, gloves, otherwise you could be hurt proving you are wrong.

[style6]

If I do another video, I won't be wearing gloves. long sleeves or glasses. I've been doing these springs, this way, since I was 13 years old, and I'm not going to change that for anyone.
PERSONALLY, I have found it much harder to keep the spring under control with gloves on, so "I" prefer to do it without.
As I have stated MANY times before, you do your springs the way that feels more comfortable to you, and READ the video, don't just watch it.

No-one is forcing anyone to do a spring removal this way. This was a quick video I made sometime ago to show some members of a board what was involved, as some had not even seen the inside of a barrel before.

I have NEVER lost control of a spring, a finger or an eye doing this way, and I've done PLENTY of them since I was a child. I won't get hurt, nor will I be proving I am wrong.
I guess some people don't like getting their hands dirty, but if you are mechanically inclined, removing a spring this way, with or without gloves, should be easy as pie.
Some people like to wear gloves to wash their dishes

Expect to see a bare handed, large spring removal video added to this one in the next week or so.

My 4 spring HMV/Victor motor will probably be used, as it's easier to get to, but please let me know if this spring is big enough first. I'd hate to be accused of using a weak spring.

BTW: It's a bit hard to film a video in a barrel or a bag
Edison's recommendation of using a barrel is protect your clothing from grease! (barrell for Henri & Victor)

[Moooperator]

I can't imagine the difficulty of unloading and loading a barrel with bulky gloves. I've loaded/unloaded both large victor and columbia springs and never felt unsafe using my bare hands. It's all in a firm grip. I would think gloves would get in the way and cause you to loose control. Interesting debate.

[MTPhono]

Shane,

I have never worked on a spring so I am coming from an ignorant point of view. Your video was certainly eye opening. I was surprised that when you cranked on the inner portion of the spring it didn't come flying out of the barrel. Even if you held both the end and the barrel why doesn't the center of the spring fly out?

Maybe you are an expert and know the limitations of the items you are working with. Would you suggest your method to a newbie like me?

I wished you lived closer. I have always wanted to play around with a spring but honestly haven't needed to since 1991.

I appreciate the post above. Please make sure you add your next video here to. I think many of us look forward to seeing it.

Regards,
Scott

[EdisonReproducers]

I use Vaseline and powdered graphite for Victor springs, flake graphite for Edison. 10 parts Vaseline to one part graphite. People say DD springs are hard to do, but in my opinion they are one of the easiest ones. When buying a new spring avoid the ones with flat ground edges. I have had good luck with Sitko's springs.

Unless you are going to immediately reinstall the spring make a diagram so you will not forget what way it winds in. I have polycarbonate eyeglasses, if not I suggest goggles.

On my next spring I want to try synthetic, but my standard that was greased in 1982 still runs smoothly.

When you first start to remove a spring it wants to go back in until you get enough out and then it wants to come out.

[phonojim]

I use Slick 50 grease on springs and motor parts in general. It is a very slippery grease and doesn't have a nasty odor like most automotive greases do.
I have had excellent results with Ron Sitko's springs. His always have rounded edges and are comfortable to handle. I don't use gloves for handling springs either but if I was removing one with one or more breaks in the coils rather than either end I probably would wear them and a face shield too because you never know for sure how springs with that type of break will come out of the barrel.

PJ

[fishin]

A newbie so bear with me. The motor felt it it was slipping or stripping when i went to crank it. I took the spring barrel out and separated the half's. One side has the spring and the other side is enclosed. I cleaned both half's in kerosene. The spring looks fine. I was going to re-grease the spring then put it back together. Is this the right approach? What does the side that is enclosed do? Thanks.

[DonIV]

Oct 20, 2010 17:01:17 GMT -6 fishin said:

A newbie so bear with me. The motor felt it it was slipping or stripping when i went to crank it. I took the spring barrel out and separated the half's. One side has the spring and the other side is enclosed. I cleaned both half's in kerosene. The spring looks fine. I was going to re-grease the spring then put it back together. Is this the right approach? What does the side that is enclosed do? Thanks.

A picture would help us to understand what we're helping you with. The description of the spring barrel you've given is not clear. You may be able to put in some good grease and put the motor back together, but as I said, it's best if you can post a picture of the motor your working on.

[eckster]

I would like to see a video on how a bigger spring gets removed and installed in spring barrels because i have done quite a few on gramophones and wind up organ. I am open to suggestions because i am restoring a brunswick floor model with the ultona tone arm

[freddie]

Large springs can be removed in exactly the same way as shown in the first video.